of what a... You know, what a special adviser does?

Um, er...

Well, technically, essentially, we just advise a minister.

Erm, sort of, media strategies, political strategies...

that sort of thing.

But you're not permanent members of the Civil Service?

Er, no, they're like the... the worker ants.

We're more like... Er, well, not the queens.

That would be, er, Peter Mannion and to a lesser extent Fergus Williams.

We're more like the solider ants that defend the queens.

Would you like to add anything, Mr Kenyon?

Yes, I'm not sure that the ant analogy helps...

at all.

Mr Smith, how would you characterise your relationship with Mr Kenyon?

Er, well, I... I...I think when you get two silverbacks like Adam and I in a room,

there's always going to be a certain amount of chest-beating, but, erm...

there's a mutual respect.

Would you agree, Mr Kenyon?

Yes.

What about data smuggling?

I...is that something that you were aware of?

Yeah, I mean of...of course I was aware of it. I think we all were...

Absolutely. Yeah.

..but I would say, I would say it was, er, it was endemic, it happens every time.

Endemic? It's commonplace.

Hospitals, er, anywhere with public information.

GPs, passport offices, you know, you name it,

they've all been known to slip information for money.

Do any of you know of specific individuals

who will offer this... this information trade?

No. I don't, no. No.

Right, so just to clarify, you say that it's endemic...

Rife, absolutely.

..but you don't know anyone who actually does it?

No. No.

No, I mean, I could if I needed to. I...